The Passion of Serj Tankian

Picture: George De Sota/Redferns

For bigger than 25 years, Serj Tankian has threaded art work, activism, and Armenian identity into his career as a singer-songwriter, producer, imprint head, and political recommend. That perspective made his work as front man of Intention of a Down — which, esteem Slipknot and the Deftones, transcended straightforward classification and complex the premise that nu metal used to be merely a fount of unthinking men’s rage — both unpredictable and informative for a technology of listeners discovering out about economics and world politics the exhausting capacity for the length of the band’s heyday in the early aughts, when the boost and prosperity of the ’90s dissolved into the wars and recessions in the early 21st century. Intention of a Down examined political dysfunction at dwelling and out of the country, decrying police brutality, privatized prisons and successfully being care, and unmanned drone strikes, the exercise of withering humor and incredible technical prowess to shake its American viewers out of faith in the goodness of executive. (This at a time when an uptick in nationalist sentiments post-9/11 gave elected officials license to circulation restrictive guidelines esteem the Patriot Act and pursue navy actions in Iraq and Afghanistan whose justifications would indicate uncertain in the years to reach.) Outdoors of Intention, Tankian runs Serjical Strike, a legend imprint the assign he and his mates, esteem Armenian singer and musician Arto Tunçboyacıyan, sing their muses down surprising rabbit holes.

As an activist, Tankian has labored to carry awareness to Armenia’s painful history of occupation, oppression, and displacement by bigger countries in the Caucasus space esteem Russia, Turkey, and Azerbaijan. Efforts to receive the US publicly peek the 1915 Armenian genocide paid off in 2019 when Congress passed a decision to acknowledge the dull Ottoman Empire’s ethnic cleansing as such following years of American leaders mincing phrases when requested to transfer on the legend, for be troubled of angering Turkey. Tankian supported the public demonstrations in opposition to executive corruption that might per chance per chance inspire 2018’s Armenian Revolution and reconvened Intention of a Down final twelve months for a double A-facet single addressing the nation’s political strife, whose proceeds assisted victims of the Nagorno-Karabakh battle. It’s their first contemporary tune collectively since 2006.

I spoke to Serj Tankian in dull February as he relaxed in Los Angeles post-vaccination about all of this, as successfully because the contemporary documentary Truth to Energy, a primer on his activism internal and exterior of doorways of Intention of a Down; Elasticity, an EP out later this month on which his rock-and-roll impulses receive returned in keen, sportive create; and parallels between corruption and unrest in the U.S. and Armenia, the 2 worldwide locations he calls dwelling. He’s as passionate and insightful on the cell phone as he is on his recordsdata.

In November, you launched two contemporary Intention of a Down income songs. Final month, you assign out a duvet of Gang of Four’s “Natural’s Now not in It” with Tom Morello. This month you free up a documentary, next month it’s a recent EP. What’s inspired all this job?

The movie and EP were in the works for a whereas. We were essentially maintaining them abet; they were going to be launched final twelve months. We galvanized Intention of a Down to create two songs, “Offer protection to the Land” and “Genocidal Humanoidz,” to abet as a response to the disinformation and propaganda advertising and marketing and marketing campaign that Azerbaijan used to be releasing referring to the battle. We wanted of us to clutch that our of us are being attacked on their historical place of origin of 2,500 years, and that the aggressors need their annihilation, normally, esteem the Armenian genocide 100 years ago, with the identical perpetrators. It used to be mandatory for us to fetch these songs out. So, we attach the total the relaxation of the releases apart.

With Tom, we’re both followers of Gang of Four and he hit me up, pronouncing, “Howdy, I’m working on this.” [Gang of Four guitarist] Andy [Gill] used to be quiet alive on the time, and Tom acknowledged, “Andy would really prefer it in case that you can additionally narrate on it, too.” By the time it got here out, he had passed [in February 2020]. Tom’s one in all my correct mates. We’ve finished a very good deal of covers collectively, and plenty of causes. We had a nonprofit referred to as Axis of Justice years ago. We had a radio enlighten collectively for years. I mean … quarantine, man. It gave me a very good deal of time to enact tune.

Elasticity is your first batch of rock songs in one thing esteem a decade. What brought you abet?

When songs reach to you as an artist, in a undeniable layout, attributable to the angle, attributable to what you feel, they correct create. If I’m composing for a movie, then I’m being inventive within parameters and bounds that are jam for me by the director. However after I’m writing on my possess, no matter comes comes, and it’d be classical. It shall be jazz. It shall be rock. These rock songs got here to me about 5 years ago. The final rock legend I had finished sooner than then used to be a solo legend referred to as Harakiri, that we launched on Warner in 2012. These songs got here to me, and they extra or much less had a extremely punk ethos to them. We tried working with Intention on them, and we couldn’t to find stare to stare philosophically, up to now because the capacity forward for the vision of the band, and so, I carried out them myself and launched them.

It must always be worrying for this explicit band to receive such public political rigidity. You had a Bernie supporter and a Trump supporter in the identical band. I ponder if that complicates of us’s vision of Intention.

It positively drew a very good deal of attention from the media, and plenty of social-media abet-and-forth, and it drew the ire of followers. For these who were a Trump supporter, you hated me, and in case you were a Bernie supporter, you hated John [Dolmayan]. It’s attention-grabbing because John’s now not correct my drummer. He’s my brother-in-law. We’re household, so we receive very equivalent views on sure issues: morals, ethics, Armenian problems. However we receive completely assorted opinions on American politics. I constantly instruct these that I’m now not the one person with a brother-in-law with a assorted political agenda. That’s what it is miles, except we’re in a band collectively as successfully, and there’s the message of the band, and this makes it extra complex, obviously. The vital thing is to receive appreciate and love for every assorted, appreciate for differences of conception. That’s how we take care of it.

What I love in regards to the contemporary documentary is that, partly, it exhibits how a band is a relationship, and how that might per chance per chance also be complex and unfavorable. A variety of rock documentaries paint a band’s correct years out to be this excellent golden technology. Did you feel esteem you needed to delve into the tensions within your band on the height of its success to instruct the total story?

I mediate that’s precisely what [director] Garin Hovannisian used to be attempting to create. I constantly command that a correct band has to receive assorted push and pulls within itself. Otherwise, the tune won’t be gargantuan. If it’s a band that’s a solo conducting, it’s now not a democratic, equal band extra or much less thing, actual? With Intention of a Down, it is miles. We’re equal participants. We’re equal householders of the name and all of that. There’s constantly push and pull. That push and pull creates attention-grabbing tune, and I haven’t seen a band that’s correct that’s in any other case. However it absolutely also creates rigidity, and that’s vital to enlighten. It’s also vital for the rationale that documentary’s about my activism bigger than my tune, although the tune’s obviously there and a huge part of it, then again it’s vital to enlighten the repercussions of being an activist and an artist.

One strength to your outreach, because it manifests itself in tune and in the public, is that it’s now not only radical and informative, however you furthermore might per chance thread that with humor. It’s correct satire on top of the total lot else. I ponder the assign that sensibility comes from.

Likely from my dad. He’s extra or much less a joker. He loves cracking jokes and decreasing the rigidity in any room. I don’t know, it’s ingrained. It’s miles a part of Intention’s tune as successfully. Daron [Malakian] has that recount to his writing, extra or much less an nearly ridiculous, overwhelming, silly extra or much less thing. You don’t know if he’s taking it seriously or if he’s joking by the tune. We both receive that in our songwriting, which works. Within the discontinuance as an artist, you’re quiet tantalizing, actual? Bob Marley did it only, because he made us dance whereas spreading his message. For these who’ll be in a position to create that, it’s both tantalizing and informative. That’s the trick.

This September will designate 20 years since the free up of Toxicity, which I’d attach on the shortlist of the albums serious to grasping the cultural 2d that created 9/11. “Slash Suey!” used to be one in all the recordsdata banned from the radio in the aftermath of 9/11 — a response that we don’t focus on about nearly sufficient — and you caught flak for being serious of American international policy. I in fact feel esteem a habitual theme in your career is the grief of truth, how complacency is terribly straightforward and how many americans would somewhat dwell in a façade of comfort than confront their realities.

Yeah. I in fact receive gotten a very good deal of flak for my activism as an artist. I quiet create except at this time, or now not it is now not connected what scenario I’m discussing, and or now not it is now not connected what part of the arena it is miles. I fetch it from American politics, from Armenian politics, from Turks, from Azeris, from Venezuelans, from Israelis. All around the planet, you know? However I’m constantly attempting to focus on the fact, and I’m constantly looking out out for justice, and whether or now not public conception is on that facet or now not is no matter that truth. After 9/11, I wrote the essay “Conception Oil” attempting to achieve how U.S. international policy created a recount the assign one thing esteem this might per chance per chance additionally happen to us. However in case you read it, it’s a extremely balanced technique of attempting to achieve multilateralism, and in point of fact working to receive a world that’s extra democratic. It’s quite easy and in fact tame, however on the time there used to be a very good deal of reactionism prevailing, a very good deal of these that were offended. They didn’t want to hear criticism of the U.S. executive and policy. So, I took a very good deal of flak. It’s one thing you fetch at risk of as an activist, I wager. You lose a very good deal of followers, too. A variety of artists aren’t engaging to create that, so they don’t fetch into that world. Or, they’ll criticize a resolve that’s already unpopular because it’s right. I’ve never hunted for security. I’ve constantly hunted for the fact.

I threw on “Penal complex Song” the day prior to this, and every word of your criticism of privatized prisons and successfully being care in America quiet rings actual, per chance even extra actual now than 20 years ago. Is it worrying to instruct of us the assign they’re headed and peek them slowly cruise there anyway?

Yeah. It’s miles. It’s worrying to chat about one thing and revisit it a decade or so later and never to find distinguished replace, or now not it is now not connected what it is miles. “Penal complex Song” is a correct example. It’s, esteem, an essay-create tune the assign it’s tantalizing with a gargantuan chorus, however on the identical time, the phrases I’m pronouncing, you shall be in a position to jot down it down and enlighten it as an argument. We’ve been in a very good deal of wars. I mean, we invaded Iraq attributable to 9/11, and it had nothing to create with 9/11. They susceptible the “weapons of mass destruction” scenario. There were no weapons of mass destruction. Yes, Saddam Hussein used to be a dictator, however he used to be also the CIA’s dictator. The identical thing took jam in Libya, in Syria … It doesn’t fabricate me in fact feel correct in regards to the undeniable truth that I’ve been talking about all of this over time when the result is quiet quite detrimental. However there are correct victories we’ve had, esteem Congress ultimately recognizing the Armenian genocide, which used to be mandatory to myself and the fellows in Intention of a Down, because all four of us receive grandparents that were survivors of the genocide. As an activist, you now not often to find the fruits of your labor reach actual. You’re employed all of your lifetime in direction of one thing, and you hope that you’ll fabricate sure replace. You mediate you will. However to essentially to find some correct info is essentially very declaring and encouraging.

Only recently I watched the Adam Curtis documentary Bitter Lake, which create of covers how the Brits and People helped to modernize Afghanistan however were, then, afraid when issues in the discount of left, as in the event that they hadn’t understood the ramifications of their meddling. I mediate that central to your message is the premise that the relaxation that you transfer around in executive in one more country can receive penalties, and that we must always be conscious of this. However create you mediate the American executive is correct ignorant to the trivialities of and the fallout from its international policy, or create they correct now not care?

I mediate a very good deal of is intentional. Through home policy, governments act with diplomacy and strive to be even-handed and enlighten a extremely correct and balanced thing for his or her inhabitants in a democracy. However even democracies, when it involves international policy, act esteem 8-twelve months-olds over helpful resource acquisition. They’ll create the relaxation, commence wars or no matter, to fetch what they need, whether or now not that’s oil, gold, regulate, or no matter they mediate is of their passion. The U.S. is no assorted, in that sense. I don’t mediate that these are mishaps. I don’t mediate that they are short concepts of now not doing nation-constructing after invading. I mediate they’re correct, “I need this, and I’m going to fetch it, and I don’t care what occurs thereafter,” and that’s in fact fucked up.

In 2002, you launched Make a choice This Album!, a assortment of songs that had leaked on the get after Toxicity, inserting teenagers onto Abbie Hoffman in the course of. It went platinum, a rarity for a compilation of leaks. Intention of a Down used to be in the final class of rock bands to interrupt sooner than the get was central to the capacity we stumble upon and rob and be conscious of tune. How create you feel about the streaming economic system and the social-justice dynamics there?

What I endure in mind most [about Steal This Album!] is sitting at a band assembly at our administration offices. We had correct launched our third single off Toxicity, which used to be huge on the radio, and we’d correct gotten off tour. After we wrote Toxicity, we had a very good deal of extra songs that we had attach apart because they didn’t in fact belong on Toxicity. We carried out them as Make a choice This Album! quite quick in the studio with Rick Rubin. I checked out the fellows, esteem, “We’re all around the radio. We can’t free up one more single now, however we need to forever quiet attach this out, because it’s leaked, and of us need to quiet hear how we vital to enact our songs. It’s now not elegant to the artist to free up unfinished songs, so we need to forever quiet free up this.” We made a video for the tune, “Convey!,” which is set bombing of us. There used to be the increasing executive program to invade Iraq on the time. It’s a fight, man. It’s a fight to constantly create the true thing.

However streaming is a byproduct of technology evolving. As a person, I love streaming. As an artist, I love and loathe it on the identical time. On myth of, publishing-radiant, of us usually are now not downloading the tune, or shopping the tune, so that you honest fetch efficiency royalties as a replacement of publishing. It’s a full assorted thing. And it’s pennies and micro-pennies on the buck for every drag for an artist. So, you’re making much less money by the total thing turning into streaming, however, as a person, I love the benefit of it. It’s top to settle for adjustments in technology and in the industry as they reach, and strive to fight in your rights as an artist on the identical time.

What’s uniquely worrying about this technology is that it’s never been clearer what the traipse forward is, however all americans looks to be siloed of their very possess micro-truth the assign they are able to preserve far from exhausting info.

The invention of social media and the fake-info world within our technology in the final assortment of years is a phenomenon to be reckoned with. It’s frightening. [Joseph] Goebbels might per chance per chance be cheerful with what we’re residing at this time. It’s fucking frightening.

One thing that struck me as I study election fraud and parliamentary shootings in post-Soviet Armenia is the feeling that America might per chance per chance additionally without effort, and will already, be heading down that direction. How does it in fact feel to see unrest in the place of origin and in the country you for the time being name dwelling?

It’s tragic. Correct after Armenia misplaced the battle in Artsakh, and there used to be a imperfect ceasefire that used to be signed — and I command “imperfect” because it’s correct that the battle has stopped and of us stopped dying, however the functions of the ceasefire were very opposed to the Armenian nation — there used to be a ransacking of Parliament in Armenia that identical day. Just a few months after, the identical thing took jam on the Capitol here, and I’m going, What the fuck? It made me in fact feel that what’s going on on the earth is terribly symptomatic and connected. I’d command that a very good deal of of us are being taken for a trudge by forces that are very, very egocentric in attempting to grab energy, and that is the identical in this country because it is miles in Armenia and in other locations on the earth, my friend.

Truth to Energy ends on a high veil with Congress acknowledging the Armenian genocide and the election of Nikol Pashinyan as Armenian Top Minister, however lots has took jam since. The take care of Azerbaijan compelled Armenians to evacuate the jam, and there’s been present dissent in the navy about whether or now not the Top Minister need to quiet proceed to manual. What’s your perspective on these developments?

Since the November 10 ceasefire, Armenians had been grieving, now not correct for the young men which receive died, however also for the 2,500-twelve months-broken-down historical homelands that we receive misplaced to dictatorships who attacked with impunity and susceptible disinformation alongside with high-grade weaponry. That obviously creates instability in Armenia, and it’s created a very good deal of effort and madden in direction of the present executive of Nikol Pashinyan. He used to be the revolutionary chief that started the 2018 Velvet Revolution, a high point in history. Now is an incredibly low point in our history. The boulevard opposition is made up of various parties that are mostly now not even in Parliament; a very good deal of them are tied to older ruling regimes attempting to possess energy abet, the exercise of the capitulation, or defeat, of Armenia because the excuse. It’s a extremely tenuous recount. Persons are offended. The majority of Armenians are in a recount the assign they don’t know who to toughen. A variety of them are offended at what took jam in the executive. There’s problems of mismanagement of the battle that are being raised, and assorted issues. However they also don’t trust the aged oligarchic regimes which receive stolen from their inhabitants and created depopulation within the country for 20 or so years.

Correct now, it’s a divisive time. I mediate the arrangement to here is a democratic, constitutional capacity forward, and that is to withhold early, snap parliamentary elections, which the present executive at one point acknowledged it could most likely perhaps create. The opposition had now not favored it, because they’re timid that even with contemporary elections, they’re much less long-established than the present executive that misplaced the battle. However, the one capacity forward has to be a democratic one. The military need to quiet now not salvage over. Opposition shouldn’t correct salvage over. No one need to quiet correct salvage over. There must always be fucking elections. And so they must always be before the 2 and a half years left on the mandate of the present Parliament. That’s what I in fact receive to assert about that.

Final June in the U.S., the brutality of police and the sense that what they’re preserving is property and hegemony used to be laid naked. The manager handled COVID mortalities esteem acceptable losses, weighing re-openings in opposition to how many americans would die, and whether or now not it mattered. Then, we got the atrocious man out and danced in the streets. Since then officials who allegedly instigated a coup strive, or who helped to fabricate a violent political climate by rhetoric … all americans’s gotten away with it. Are we in the loss of life throes of an broken-down characterize, or is this the honeymoon sooner than the sci-fi-movie stuff starts going on?

I’ve been pondering of aliens showing up. What else is left, actual? “You guys are in fact fucking this up.” Or, esteem the Danny Elfman–scored Tim Burton movie Mars Attacks!: “We reach in peace,” and they correct shoot all americans. I don’t know, man. We’re residing in unfamiliar cases. I in fact receive to assert that it is a breath of reduction seeing Trump breeze. There used to be good chaos. It didn’t in fact feel esteem executive. I felt esteem these that were responsible of the executive vital to salvage the executive apart. It used to be the correct sabotage, the correct coup. He normally took apart the total executive. Likely that’s what some of us vital. I mediate the cause Trump had toughen is attributable to dirty politics, because politics was a filthy word, and no-one trusts politicians. Nobody trusts American politics anymore. That’s why one thing esteem that used to be in a position to happen. In jam of going for the Bernie, who would receive essentially cleaned up the fucking atmosphere, Trump vital to drain the swamp, however he made America correct into a swamp. I mediate going abet to frequent is our possess extinction.

I’m hoping that I’m succesful of to find some engagement in the sure sense with the Biden administration. We have to conclude being a corporatocracy and commence in fact changing correct into a democracy. Otherwise, we’re now not in fact going to dwell on. That’s what it in fact comes all the model down to. The U.S. is potentially essentially the most downhearted country on the earth, except the genius of the U.S. is that it’s legalized. It’s legalized in its electoral college, gargantuan-delegates, K Avenue lobbying firms. All of these are legalized forms of corruption. The manager of Turkey spends thousands and thousands of bucks a twelve months with K Avenue lobbying firms to persuade the U.S. Congress to work on its behalf. And it’s now not correct the executive of Turkey doing this. We know that attributable to combating for recognition of the genocide. Every country does that. Our executive is up on the market attributable to money in politics. It’s time to full that. This is our country. We’re the citizens. They work for us. Fuck that.

Irrespective of how distinguished else you create, a huge contingent of your fandom is constantly going to need you at sq. one in Intention of a Down. Is that worrying?

Gape, the undeniable truth that a very good deal of of us are attracted to us having contemporary tune is the ideal praise on the earth. It’s now not worrying to me. It’s constantly a praise, because if of us forgot about you as an artist, and no longer care whether or now not you assign out tune or now not, that might per chance per chance be worse, actual? So, I mediate it’s constantly a praise when there’s all that attention, and love, and looking out the contemporary tune. Now, when of us reach and command, “Fuck you, I don’t care what you mediate, correct give me one more Intention legend,” that’s extra or much less vulgar. That I’ll answer to, and command “Disappear fuck yourself.” I don’t esteem the angle, however I love the undeniable truth that of us love the band and the tune, to some degree of frustration, and I’m sorry that of us are frustrated. However, it is miles what it is miles. ? As an artist, or now not it is miles valuable to fabricate the tune that you are feeling most cheerful with.

This interview has been edited and condensed for readability.

A bloody September 2020 dispute between Armenia and Azerbaijan over the Republic of Artsakh, a breakaway recount of traditionally Armenian land positioned within present-day Azerbaijan ceded to Azeri leadership in a extremely unpopular treaty brokered by Armenian high minister Nikol Pashinynan, hero of the revolution only two years prior.

Dolmayan is married to Diana Madatyan, the sister of Tankian’s wife, Angela Madatyan.

An excerpt: “All around the Iran-Iraq battle, America equipped every facet with weapons and advice. These usually are now not the actions of a rich superpower looking out peace.”

“Minor drug offenders accept as true alongside with your prisons, you don’t even recoil / All our taxes paying in your wars in opposition to the contemporary non-rich.”